ID: series strong damping effect

Discussion - ID:Series amplifiers.
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PhD
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

Wed May 21, 2014 12:14 pm

Hi. I have an ID:60 and investigated some strange behavior I perceived some times ago. When using the CRUNCH or SUPERCRUNCH sounds, I found out that unless you attack the strings very hard, there is an incredible damping taking place, just as if a limiter was active but badly setup. Try for instance CRUNCH, gain at 12oclock, volume at 12oclock. If you are hard on strings, everything is find. But now move into some arpegio, light, and you will hear very strange level changes... I tried several guitars, but also several Overdrive pedals on a clean setup, NONE delivers this bad effect. I guess the firmware needs to address this. I also tried other amps (Blackstar Soloist 60, Fender Stage 112, Fender Performer 1000, Roland Cube 80XL) and this problem does not exist elsewhere. Pity when you need CRUNCH (or SCRUNCH) for some saturated sound but then need to calm down to some cleaner return. Only solution: switch channel from CRUNCH to CLEAN! note: this is NOT the noise gate impact, as it does not apply to CRUNCH and SCRUNCH...
Last edited by PhD on Thu May 22, 2014 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dejavu
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:06 am

Thu May 22, 2014 2:11 pm

Hy PhD,
can you specifie what you mean with damping... but i already think to know what you mean...

Iv got my ID60 for about two month now. First everything was fine but with the time i also had my problems with the crunch and super crunsh and in fact also with the od's. It sounds an feels, as there is always a noisegate working that cuts the volume too early.(even if the internal gate is off)

The interesting with this is, that my bandmates said the amp sounds great but the guitarsound does not have the sustain, that i had befor the ID60...

So just the last days i tryed to work with a booster, but that didnt solve. Just yesterday there was this thread about the usage of pedals with the ID.

http://www.blackstaramps.com/forum/view ... =52&t=3849

There many players using a compressor in front of it, i've done this too, and this is it...

How about yours and other opinions? like to hear...

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PhD
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

Fri May 23, 2014 1:39 pm

Hello, Dejavu. Thanks for your reply. Let me expand on the issue.
As you say, it all sounds as if there was a noise gate strongly active on the CRUNCH and SCRUNCH. If you strum your strings hard, all is well. But without changing the setup, if you play a string very lightly to get to a clean sound in CRUNCH mode for instance, there is no sustain, the level vanishes very strongly. But on top, if you play another string, the level comes back up, precisely as a noise gate. So I understand what you mean by no sustain, this is the end result. Having a compressor in front does not help really, because you will have then a strong level at the input and you will remain in CRUNCH, not getting the clean sound you'd expect from an amp played lightly. I really suspect it is a bug, something like "oh, we forgot the noise gate in the Crunch and SCrunch setups"... or something like that. Pity, the rest is all fine.

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PhD
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

Fri May 23, 2014 8:22 pm

Here is how you can reproduce the problem.
Select CRUNCH channel, no effect, whatever valve sim, tones on mid, gain on mid, volume on mid. Master to ear what happens (possible a little load as the effect is stronger).
Play one single note with low E, and let it sound. After 2 or 3 second, when volume of the E goes down, play very lighly the high E, say every second or so. Each time you play the high E, you will clearly ear the low E volume goes up, as would a noise gate do. Easy. But very bad, unfortunately. This is why in those channels (CRUNCH, SCRUNCH), guitars have basically no sustain! :(

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JohnBNY
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:14 pm
Location: Bedford, New York

Sat May 24, 2014 1:27 am

I have an ID 60, and I do not have that issue. The sustain is just fine, and the noise gate only kicks in when I'm not playing. Sounds like something is defective in your amp. Good luck.

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PhD
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

Sat May 24, 2014 3:12 pm

Hmmm strange, because you do NOT have a noise gate in CRUNCH and SCRUNCH, it is only active in OD1 and OD2. I also tried with two other ID:60, one from a friend, and one in the store and they all show the same problem... So not an issue with the amp, I am still convinced it is a firmware bug.

Highland Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:44 am

Sat May 24, 2014 7:10 pm

I have the 260 and it really does not have that problem. Have you checked the cable quality you are using?

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PhD
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

Sat May 24, 2014 7:12 pm

Hello.
I recorded the issue to better document it.
Here is the setup: ID:60, gain, volume, high, mid, low, ISF, all at 12oclock, no effect, EL84 valve (does not matter actually). Use master to hear what goes on. Mode CRUNCH selected. Recording is made with a TASCAM unit, and result is as good as what I heard on the ID:60. BUT do NOT use the PC speakers as their bandwidth is too bad. Use headphones instead (or an external HiFi).
I played 2 lower strings (A and D) together, then waited about 3 seconds, then played the high E string alone (keeping the A and D vibrating on their own) every 2 seconds (more or less). A spectrum graph (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99232684/BS.png) clearly shows the case: first the low notes, then the 3 higher notes, which shows that the bass strings are coming back in the -20dB range while it was almost disappeared!
Here is the mp3 file of the sample : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99232684/BS.mp3
I hope with all this, the case is made clear for BlackStar to take action !

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JohnBNY
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:14 pm
Location: Bedford, New York

Sat May 24, 2014 10:04 pm

Wow, I listened to your clip and that's terrible. It should not do that. On my amp, the note will ring out for a good 5 to 6 seconds even if I lightly pluck it.

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Sonofarich
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:00 am

Sun May 25, 2014 12:41 am

Have you tried asking BS about this behavior? Maybe it's something they are aware of and have resolved (or are working on). Contact them at enquiries@blackstaramps.com

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